Dr. Kathleen McInnis, Senior Fellow and Director of the Smart Women, Smart Power Initiative at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, discussed her experience in Ukraine, the progression of Ukraine’s conflict with Russia, and the future of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), Sept. 27.

The lecture was hosted by the University’s Department of History and the Office of the Dean of Arts and Sciences.

Speaking about her experience in Ukraine, McInnis said that she attended a government-oriented delegation in Kyiv during the first full night following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. 

“[Kyiv] is a picture of resilience in the face of an atrocious, ferocious, enemy. That is absolutely amazing,” McInnis said.

McInnis noted that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky’s visit to Bucha, a suburb northeast of Kyiv that experienced a deadly massacre in 2022, played a pivotal role in shaping his wartime strategy. 

“It was in Bucha that Zelensky realized [that] if [Ukraine] does not keep every inch of Ukrainian territory back, it will only be seen as a strategic pause for Russia,” she said. “This means [Russia] can regroup and re-attack at the time of their choosing. And that is how Ukraine ultimately loses.” 

McInnis belives that the Bucha Massacre shows signs of a genocide by Russia and that any concessions to Russia could be seen as appeasing and rewarding a country for violating international law. 

“If we are going to allow for this kind of state annexation of other state territories and we’re going to allow states to redraw the lines of international maps using military force and engaging in genocide, that is chaos,” she said.

McInnis recounted her visit to Ukraine as an enlightening experience. 

“I walked away from Ukraine with a better understanding of where the line is being held,” McInnis said. “It is the place of geopolitical tectonic shifts. And the question is what are we going to do if we [as democratic societies] care about international order.”

McInnis said that we need to rethink the global government’s role, including NATO, in international issues.

“I love NATO, but I do not think this is the right moment for NATO,” McInnis said. “I do, however, think it is the right moment for democracies to find creative ways not just to provide assistance, but to provide assurances.”

She cited historical precedent as a way to “enable the assurances we want as Ukrainians claw back their territory,” and clarified that this idea “needs a lot of thought,” before implementation.

McInnis also called for interagency reform, which would begin in Washington D.C.

Student Life followed up with McInnis to ask what specific reforms she recommends should be made to the National Security Council (NSC).

Her recommended approach would entail managerial and organizational restructuring of the NSC in a style similar to that of the Office of Management and Budget (OMB). 

McInnis publicly endorsed her support for the government spending bill that includes $24 billion in additional support for Ukraine. However, she acknowledged that there needs to be work on selling it to the American people.  

“American leaders are not communicating the stakes. Leaders are not talking about NATO and why it matters, why these institutions matter for you and your way of life to make sure that these institutions function, so if they’re not going make the case…you guys need to start making the case.”

Donor fatigue to Ukraine has become increasingly concerning as the war has continued on, McInnis noted. 

“We are inundated with so much information. It becomes hard emotionally, psychologically to sustain engagement with these issues,” McInnis said. “The hardest is to keep these issues on the minds of populations and leaders.”

McInnis ended her lecture by stressing how humanity is often lost within global governments and urged for more humanity-driven diplomacy. 

“What makes NATO work right now is chats with different ambassadors; it is human interactions that make the alliances vibrant, and so it is incumbent upon us to remember the human dimensions of our national security and foreign policy.” McInnis said. “These are not abstractions, these are real people dying. Real people are affected. Let’s bring humanity back into our discourse.”