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	<title>Comments on: The Catch-22 of government health care</title>
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	<link>http://www.studlife.com/forum/2009/10/19/the-catch-22-of-government-health-care/</link>
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		<title>By: Neo</title>
		<link>http://www.studlife.com/forum/2009/10/19/the-catch-22-of-government-health-care/#comment-1883</link>
		<dc:creator>Neo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 22:47:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.studlife.com/?p=5852#comment-1883</guid>
		<description>Why not work on tort reform for medical malpractice, allow interstate shopping of insurance plans and expand medicaid for those citizens who can not afford a private plan. 

Why create an entity that our grandchildren and great grandchildren will have to pay for. Allowing business to join a public option will be death to the private insurance companies and then we are stuck with a canadian health care system. Scary stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why not work on tort reform for medical malpractice, allow interstate shopping of insurance plans and expand medicaid for those citizens who can not afford a private plan. </p>
<p>Why create an entity that our grandchildren and great grandchildren will have to pay for. Allowing business to join a public option will be death to the private insurance companies and then we are stuck with a canadian health care system. Scary stuff.</p>
<p>  <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-1883" src="http://www.studlife.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1883', 'add', 'www.studlife.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-1883-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-1883" src="http://www.studlife.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1883', 'subtract', 'www.studlife.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-1883-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: US Healthcare</title>
		<link>http://www.studlife.com/forum/2009/10/19/the-catch-22-of-government-health-care/#comment-1866</link>
		<dc:creator>US Healthcare</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:57:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.studlife.com/?p=5852#comment-1866</guid>
		<description>Richard,

How much do you know about the US healthcare system?  I cannot claim that I even know 10% about its policies and history but I know enough to shed some light on your comments.

&lt;i&gt;&quot;I honestly cannot figure out what the purpose of a health care reform bill would be. Perhaps it would make a few tweaks to obscure policies and change some pointless regulations around, but it wouldn’t do what this nation’s health system desperately needs; it would not lower the cost of health insurance.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

The current state of our healthcare system was both caused and transformed by &quot;pointless regulations,&quot; and rewriting our flawed decision making throughout the evolution of US healthcare is exactly what needs to happen.  For example, in 1954 (post-World War II) a small line of IRS tax code, that rode along with wage freeze legislation, created tax-free status on employee provided health benefits.  Along with other factors, this one &quot;pointless regulation&quot; is exactly what drove the inflationary tendency of health care costs and thus the coverage of them by inherently providing a subsidy to those purchasing private insurance for healthcare through employers.

If you don&#039;t want to listen to me, listen to someone much smarter than I:
&lt;b&gt;http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hphr/fall-2008/fall08baicker.html&lt;/b&gt; from a professor in Health Policy &amp; Management at the Harvard School of Public Health.

One more thing, the healthcare industry may be tempting to model with classical economics as you mentioned, but the classical assumptions we make to model a market do not hold in healthcare.  For example, we assume &quot;perfect information&quot; -- think about the asymmetries of knowledge in a patient-physician relationship, or even a payor-provider relationship.

Furthermore, the Congressional Budget Office and other authorities in healthcare costing have actually shown that instituting a public option would drive up healthcare costs for the middle class.  You like economics: think about scarce resource allocation.  Currently in the US system we allocate healthcare resources on the individuals ability to pay, whether it be out of pocket, through insurance, or through a government-sponsored program.  If legislation passes which extends the allocation base (including those who couldn&#039;t pay) by subsidizing their entry, who has to provide that subsidy?

Lastly, you mentioned that the media is only concerned with two areas, one being the &quot;public option.&quot;  I would like to point out that currently half of our healthcare spending (which is the third largest sector of our economy and heavily regulated in every aspect) goes through the government.  Here&#039;s your real paradox: how can the entity who has had its hands in &#039;half&#039; of the problem claim to hold the solution?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard,</p>
<p>How much do you know about the US healthcare system?  I cannot claim that I even know 10% about its policies and history but I know enough to shed some light on your comments.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;I honestly cannot figure out what the purpose of a health care reform bill would be. Perhaps it would make a few tweaks to obscure policies and change some pointless regulations around, but it wouldn’t do what this nation’s health system desperately needs; it would not lower the cost of health insurance.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>The current state of our healthcare system was both caused and transformed by &#8220;pointless regulations,&#8221; and rewriting our flawed decision making throughout the evolution of US healthcare is exactly what needs to happen.  For example, in 1954 (post-World War II) a small line of IRS tax code, that rode along with wage freeze legislation, created tax-free status on employee provided health benefits.  Along with other factors, this one &#8220;pointless regulation&#8221; is exactly what drove the inflationary tendency of health care costs and thus the coverage of them by inherently providing a subsidy to those purchasing private insurance for healthcare through employers.</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t want to listen to me, listen to someone much smarter than I:<br />
<b><a href="http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hphr/fall-2008/fall08baicker.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hphr/fall-2008/fall08baicker.html</a></b> from a professor in Health Policy &amp; Management at the Harvard School of Public Health.</p>
<p>One more thing, the healthcare industry may be tempting to model with classical economics as you mentioned, but the classical assumptions we make to model a market do not hold in healthcare.  For example, we assume &#8220;perfect information&#8221; &#8212; think about the asymmetries of knowledge in a patient-physician relationship, or even a payor-provider relationship.</p>
<p>Furthermore, the Congressional Budget Office and other authorities in healthcare costing have actually shown that instituting a public option would drive up healthcare costs for the middle class.  You like economics: think about scarce resource allocation.  Currently in the US system we allocate healthcare resources on the individuals ability to pay, whether it be out of pocket, through insurance, or through a government-sponsored program.  If legislation passes which extends the allocation base (including those who couldn&#8217;t pay) by subsidizing their entry, who has to provide that subsidy?</p>
<p>Lastly, you mentioned that the media is only concerned with two areas, one being the &#8220;public option.&#8221;  I would like to point out that currently half of our healthcare spending (which is the third largest sector of our economy and heavily regulated in every aspect) goes through the government.  Here&#8217;s your real paradox: how can the entity who has had its hands in &#8216;half&#8217; of the problem claim to hold the solution?</p>
<p>  <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-1866" src="http://www.studlife.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1866', 'add', 'www.studlife.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-1866-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-1866" src="http://www.studlife.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1866', 'subtract', 'www.studlife.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-1866-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ian August Mosley</title>
		<link>http://www.studlife.com/forum/2009/10/19/the-catch-22-of-government-health-care/#comment-1782</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian August Mosley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 21:57:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.studlife.com/?p=5852#comment-1782</guid>
		<description>UPS and FedEx compete with the USPS for certain niche services, but in several real senses they cannot compete, both because in some cases they are legally prohibited from competing, and in others they cannot compete with a government entity which takes substantial losses every year. This article is, I think, instructive: &lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.mises.org/archives/010452.asp&quot; title=&quot;Obama and the Post Office&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>UPS and FedEx compete with the USPS for certain niche services, but in several real senses they cannot compete, both because in some cases they are legally prohibited from competing, and in others they cannot compete with a government entity which takes substantial losses every year. This article is, I think, instructive: <a href="http://blog.mises.org/archives/010452.asp" title="Obama and the Post Office" rel="nofollow">.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mason Allen</title>
		<link>http://www.studlife.com/forum/2009/10/19/the-catch-22-of-government-health-care/#comment-1728</link>
		<dc:creator>Mason Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 06:41:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.studlife.com/?p=5852#comment-1728</guid>
		<description>They will be able to compete the same way that FedEx and UPS kick the hell out of the USPS but the USPS still provides the basic necessary services to all areas for a low cost (making it available to everyone). If you object with the ability to deficit spend, then call your senator or congressional representative and ask them to support a version that has a built in budget neutrality requirement for the public option. It works in Austria and Germany where all individuals have public insurance but augment it with a private package to extend coverage. I think it&#039;s the way we need to be going if we want to provide competition to the market as well as make insurance available to all Americans at a reasonable cost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They will be able to compete the same way that FedEx and UPS kick the hell out of the USPS but the USPS still provides the basic necessary services to all areas for a low cost (making it available to everyone). If you object with the ability to deficit spend, then call your senator or congressional representative and ask them to support a version that has a built in budget neutrality requirement for the public option. It works in Austria and Germany where all individuals have public insurance but augment it with a private package to extend coverage. I think it&#8217;s the way we need to be going if we want to provide competition to the market as well as make insurance available to all Americans at a reasonable cost.</p>
<p>  <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-1728" src="http://www.studlife.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1728', 'add', 'www.studlife.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-1728-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-1728" src="http://www.studlife.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('1728', 'subtract', 'www.studlife.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-1728-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ian Mosley</title>
		<link>http://www.studlife.com/forum/2009/10/19/the-catch-22-of-government-health-care/#comment-1636</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Mosley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 14:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Perhaps you would like to explain how it is that private insurers (who must by law make a profit) will be able to compete with a government program (which is free to shift its losses onto the national budget).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps you would like to explain how it is that private insurers (who must by law make a profit) will be able to compete with a government program (which is free to shift its losses onto the national budget).</p>
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